kerithwyn: Oracle (Lincoln)
[personal profile] kerithwyn posting in [community profile] fringe_rewatch
One of my absolute favorite episodes. Beware of flailing in comments, imminently.

The Plateau



Writer: Alison Schapker, Monica Owusu-Breen
Director: Brad Anderson
Originally aired: 7 October 2010

Synopsis:
Timing is everything as fatal chain reactions are deliberately set in motion. The alternate Fringe Division investigates a human drug trial that intellectually enables its patients. Secretary Bishop shares his strategic plan with Colonel Broyles about the importance of Olivia. Confusing visions surface in Olivia's mind as she adapts to Bolivia's life.

Most Memorable Quote:
PETER (as a vision): You know why you didn't die today, right? Because you didn't know the protocol. If you'd stopped for oxygen, you'd be dead right now. But you did something that he couldn't factor in, you kept running. You know why you did that. It's the same reason you thought you saw Walter in the hospital. It's the same reason why you think you're seeing me now. You're not from this world, Olivia. You're not her.
OLIVIA: You're not real.
PETER (as a vision): Real is just a matter of perception. I am here. And I'm a part of you that you have to hold onto. You can't forget who you are Olivia. You can't forget where you're from. You can't forget this. (a gentle kiss)

Links:
Episode transcript
AV Club
Polite Dissent
Pop Culture Nexus


Fanfiction:
Quantum Entanglement by rainer -- my headcanon for head!Peter.
Going to Miss Over There by Jaune Chat -- [Explicit] my headcanon for other things. :D
Fringe fics on AO3 that reference this episode

Date: 2014-10-11 03:28 am (UTC)
sprocket: Red and yellow leaf image (Default)
From: [personal profile] sprocket
Milo's ability: Flowers for Algernon meets probability manipulation.

That is some crazy Rube Goldberg action. I can appreciate as a beautiful storytelling device.

I can only make squeaking noises at the screen during the Charlie and Lincoln scene.

The show's willingness to spread out and show the redverse (other side? Does the rewatch have preferred terms?) really paid off. I'd be perfectly fine with following Olivia on the other side for the entire episode, but developing other characters - Charlie, Lincoln, a smidge of Astrid, Broyles, Walternate and Brandon Fayette - made the two universes' conflicts and crossed signals way more compelling.

I am 100% on board with rainer's spec that head!Peter is actually Peter, projected here during one of his many time jumps/altered states.

That is a very compelling thought! This is Fringe, it's totally possible.

Date: 2014-10-10 09:06 pm (UTC)
wendelah1: If this is the plot arc, we're so screwed (Alt! Team)
From: [personal profile] wendelah1
There are so many wtfs in this episode that I don't know where to start.

To begin with, it's the antithesis of Flowers for Algernon, a book I loved as a child, in which we meet the protagonist, Charlie Gordon, at the very beginning of his journey from a metaphorical darkness into light and back into darkness again. We see what it's like to be Charlie both before and after his intelligence is tripled, as well as after he loses everything he'd gained, and more. We empathize with him. We care deeply about his fate.

By the time we meet Milo Stanfield in "The Plateau," his intelligence has become immeasurable by ordinary standards, to where he is no longer able to interact with the rest of humanity. Indeed, Milo sees other people as nothing more than objects to manipulate. The world is a big chess game and other people are pieces for him to move around at will. This is a familiar Fringe theme. Nearly everyone we encounter in the Fringe Universe who is of unusual intelligence is also of questionable moral character. Walter Bishop is a good example: a man of high intellectual capacity and a nearly vacant moral center.

It's only through Milo's sister Madeline that we get any sense of what her brother was like before the experiment changed him. But her character isn't given enough screen time for us to fully connect with her. We were never given a chance to care anything about Milo. Lock him up and throw away the key.

However, this bizarre exchange made me angry at the scientists who experimented on Milo and made him the way he is. They're the real guilty parties here.

DOCTOR LEVIN: That was after one treatment. We gave him five. Every time we administered the protocol, his intelligence increased exponentially. The final phase of the project allows subjects to be released under the supervision of a guardian's care.

OLIVIA: And after that?

DOCTOR LEVIN: After that, we return the subjects to their original state. A necessary part of human drug trials. We had to determine whether there are any permanent adverse side effects.


A necessary part of human drug trials, where exactly? Certainly not here in the good ole USA. In fact, if one group of a double blind drug trial is getting better while the other continues to suffer, the researchers can stop the trial and start giving the experimental medication to everyone. I guess in the Redverse, if you cure someone's cancer, you have to return them to their previous state of disease and let them die? That would be a permanent adverse effect all right. Really, this entire idea is so fucked up and wrong-headed. This isn't how medical research is supposed to work! It's illogical and unethical and a good example of bad world-building.

If the stated goal was to make the subjects self-sufficient, why would the scientists keep giving Milo more treatments when he had already progressed to that point after only one? That also makes no sense at all.

Before anyone says that it's my background in science that kept me from enjoying this episode, let me stop you in your tracks. The Polite Dissent guy loved it, so science is not to blame. And my husband who has a PhD in Lit and no science background at all hated it just as much as I did.

Was there anything worth watching in this episode?

Of course I enjoyed watching the Redverse Fringe team at work. All of the little character interactions are fun. Charlie's questioning of Olivia's real identity was right on. Good thing for Olivia that he didn't listen to his gut on that one.

I have mixed feelings about the Peter hallucination. Maybe if I shipped it, I'd like it better? But I mostly just found his presence annoying and intrusive.

Olivia chasing after Milo into the low oxygen zone reminded me of Alt!livia running into the subway tunnel to save Peter.

Also, Milo's abilities are in contradiction to chaos theory, therefore impossible.
Edited (add something) Date: 2014-10-10 09:23 pm (UTC)

Date: 2014-10-11 03:54 am (UTC)
sprocket: Red and yellow leaf image (Default)
From: [personal profile] sprocket
Before anyone says that it's my background in science that kept me from enjoying this episode, let me stop you in your tracks. The Polite Dissent guy loved it, so science is not to blame. And my husband who has a PhD in Lit and no science background at all hated it just as much as I did.

On the other side, I have some science background, and I liked this episode. The science was terrible, but the acting, the cinematography, the hooks into bigger themes and plot arcs were compelling to me, so I could overlook the ridiculous implausibility surrounding Milo's abilities and situation in the episode.

Nearly everyone we encounter in the Fringe Universe who is of unusual intelligence is also of questionable moral character.

It's a shame: my experience in real life is that these traits are orthogonal. Fringe invests in the dangers of the uncanny, without really thinking about ways to responsibly and ethically handle some of the issues it brings up.

It's illogical and unethical and a good example of bad world-building.

Have to agree with that: there are probably some alternative paths that would have gotten the episode to very similar initial conditions, without such stupid biomed. Especially in contrast to the "tests" Walternate and Fayette are setting up for Olivia: establish good-but-screwed-up Milo-focused science, as a foil for we-never-intended-good Olivia-focused "science".

I have mixed feelings about the Peter hallucination. Maybe if I shipped it, I'd like it better?

Maybe some Peter/Olivia fans can chime in? I am absolutely neutral. Their relationship in S2 was promising, but the show's later attempts to sell me on the romantic fated-ness didn't find a buyer here.

Olivia chasing after Milo into the low oxygen zone reminded me of Alt!livia running into the subway tunnel to save Peter.

Ohhh, didn't catch that! I like the parallel, now you've pointed it out.

Date: 2014-10-11 04:52 am (UTC)
wendelah1: Olivia Dunham and Charlie Francis (Olivia and Charlie)
From: [personal profile] wendelah1
On the other side, I have some science background, and I liked this episode.

I'm sure the vast majority of fans feel as you do. That's why I mentioned the Polite Dissent Guy. He's usually very critical of Fringe for its bad science. He's not always right but he's generally disapproving. He loved this episode.

It's a shame: my experience in real life is that these traits are orthogonal.

Mine, too. This is typical of their writers, though. They are so good at writing their continuing characters but they shortchange nearly all of the one-shots.

Their relationship in S2 was promising, but the show's later attempts to sell me on the romantic fated-ness didn't find a buyer here.

I'm not opposed to P/O, but except for Charlie/Bug Girl, I was only actively shipping the doomed ships.

Especially in contrast to the "tests" Walternate and Fayette are setting up for Olivia: establish good-but-screwed-up Milo-focused science, as a foil for we-never-intended-good Olivia-focused "science".

It messes up my Redverse Department of Defense's Science Division=The Consortium in The X-Files if all of their scientists are this ill-intentioned. Insisting on returning your human test subjects to the state they were in prior to testing them goes way beyond screwed up for me. It's cruel and inhumane.

The Fringe writers are having fun showing us the differences between Blueverse and Redverse, but they don't always think their choices through. Those zeppelins look really cool in a Toto we aren't in Kansas anymore kind of way but realistically, in what technologically advanced society would they be a viable alternative to airplanes?

Date: 2014-10-13 03:08 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] corwinofamber
The Fringe writers are having fun showing us the differences between Blueverse and Redverse, but they don't always think their choices through. Those zeppelins look really cool in a Toto we aren't in Kansas anymore kind of way but realistically, in what technologically advanced society would they be a viable alternative to airplanes?

One in which getting from point A to Point B as fast as possible isn't as important? They like to stop and smell the flowers on the Other Side, there are so few these days...

ETA: Zeppelins are also very energy efficient.
Edited Date: 2014-10-13 03:09 am (UTC)

Date: 2014-10-13 03:37 am (UTC)
sprocket: Red and yellow leaf image (Default)
From: [personal profile] sprocket
This is typical of their writers, though. They are so good at writing their continuing characters but they shortchange nearly all of the one-shots.

Ohhhh. That's probably why the MotWs are so bad, but the longer arcs are so good! (Yes, sometimes enlightenment comes slowly.)

I'm not opposed to P/O, but except for Charlie/Bug Girl, I was only actively shipping the doomed ships.

Oh, ouch.

but realistically, in what technologically advanced society would they be a viable alternative to airplanes?

My first thought was: a society similar to ours, where passenger trains are still a thing? My second thought is to handwave zeppelins as surging in popularity after a Fringe event involving airplanes falling out of the sky, but zeppelins predate 1985, so that's out.

Date: 2014-10-11 03:16 am (UTC)
sprocket: Red and yellow leaf image (Default)
From: [personal profile] sprocket
MotW: actually not totally off it. I'm a sucker for family relationships, so Madeleine trying to do the best for her brother worked for me, especially framed against Olivia's relationship with Rachel. Not sure if the early season mention is setup for Bloodlines... could argue it's just hammering the divergence between the two timelines, or being used just for the MotW plot.

There are a hundred ways the science was awful. But this is Fringe; if there is one thing I can rely on, it's the writing's "plausibility, what's that?" attitude toward anything in the science / engineering / math end of the spectrum. The ethics are terrible, but I find that more interesting: is that lousy writing, or a subtle statement on human experimentation Over There? I'm inclined toward bad writing, but considering the upcoming "make Olivia jump universes" thread, I can't rule out very different (and kind of disturbing) IRB guidelines.

What struck me about this, on the first viewing, is the scene where Milo finishes Madeleine's sentences. It's uncanny, it's... Observer-like. I kind of like Milo's ability conceptually, for the Observer correlation, and as a storytelling device about Olivia and her situation. But I am underwhelmed by the sloppy science.

Interesting sort-of-foil that Charlie (killed and replaced by shapeshifter in the blueverse) is the first to twig that Olivia might not be, well, the Olivia Dunham he knows. And interesting that Lincoln, the designated Fringe Science Guy (and guy with the hopeless Olivia crush) completely misses that through all of blue!Olivia's time in the redverse.

This isn't the most brilliant or mindblowing episode, but it was fun and I like rewatching it. I like Olivia's in-character solution to the Follow Him or Don't paradox (of course Olivia goes after her suspect!), I like the redverse team's dynamic, I like Astrid's competence in her specialization, I like Lincoln walking around like a zombie in reverse, slowly looking less like a Fringe case. It just might be the only example of non-evil pseudo/near-future science in the entire series.

Visual notes: Milo's jump onto the delivery truck gets a visual echo in "Lysergic Acid Diethylamide", when Walter appears in Olivia's mind atop a (soon to be moving) bus; Olivia reflecting - literally - when talking siblings with Madeleine.
Edited Date: 2014-10-11 03:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2014-10-13 03:12 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] corwinofamber
And interesting that Lincoln, the designated Fringe Science Guy (and guy with the hopeless Olivia crush) completely misses that through all of blue!Olivia's time in the redverse.

Lincoln is kind of like Peter in that regard. Each sees what they want to see.

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