3x02: The Box

[wikiaddicted723]

So. Great episode. Not My Favourite (TM) but great nonetheless. It does a really good job of advancing the story without loosing the momentum of that fantastic season opener. It also makes me want to throw things at my TV. And at Peter. And at Alt!Liv. Preferably a very large rock in the latter case. 

 

<rant>

 

I love the person Alt!Liv was revealed to be as the season continued, and the leaps and bounds of her character development, but I think I'm going to be sore about her actions in our universe for a very long time. And it's not just about Peter either. The thing is that the Olivia we'd come to know and love would never have even considered damaging an entire universe of people just to save her own. She certainly would never have shot a disabled man point-blank just because it would have put her in a tough spot. And there is something...needy and superficial about her need of approval in Newton's eyes. She's so determined to be The One in Charge that the actions she commits to get there get worse and worse as the first half of the season goes on. And she's oh, so cold. That calculating stare she has throughout this episode is one of the most off-putting things I've seen.  She's listened to Walternate reveal the lie that has shaped her entire life, reveal that he was the direct responsible for that breach of trust, and instead of questioning the chain of command, she's gone and swallowed the Kool-Aid. As fascinating and well written (and acted!) as it is, it feels like a betrayal. 

 

The thing is that Alt!Liv is privileged, and selfish. She's an Olivia that has suffered loss, yes. She lives in a universe where her sister and niece are dead, a universe that is falling apart. She does care for people, because it's her job and anything she does, she'll do it well, and because Not Caring isn't something any version of Olivia does. But she hasn't felt the same pain Our!Olivia has. She hasn't been the victim of people determined to do her harm.  She has her mother, and she never had a stepfather as far we know. For Alt!Liv, firing a gun is a sport, something she's good at. For Olivia, it's a necessity, a survival skill. 

 

Like Walter, Alt!liv does not initially understand the ramifications of her decisions, the consequences of her actions. 

 

</rant>

 

In other news, Peter shows his skills, Walter is Walter, Astrid continues to be a saint, Nina is weirded out by PDA, and NOBODY questions Olivia's choice of wardrobe.  (FFS people, the woman has been wearing nothing but suits for TWO YEARS!!). 

 

Also, what was Bell thinking when he decided it was a good idea to give Walter Bishop full control of the largest shady corporation on earth?

 

 

 

Writer: Josh Singer, Graham Roland

Director: Jeff Hunt

Originally aired: September 30, 2010

 

Synopsis

The team investigates a mystifying case of victims frozen in a trance-like state that was induced by a mysterious box. Bolivia works with Thomas Newton on their plan against this universe. Walter and Nina meet at Massive Dynamic for a reading of William Bell's Last Will.

 

Most Memorable Quote

 

BOLIVIA DUNHAM: So has anyone located what they were after?

BROYLES: We don't even know what they were after.

PETER: Beware of buried treasure, huh?

BROYLES: We're thinking there was a third thief who took whatever they dug up.

WALTER: Unless, of course, this buried treasure had legs of its own. Wouldn't that be delightful?

 

[yes, Walter, DELIGHTFUL. I love your sense of humour]

 

 

PETER: (steps over to the device) I'd like to take this back to the lab. We got the blueprints. Maybe I can figure it out.

BROYLES: Okay. (as Peter signs the receipt for the container and its' contents)

BOLIVIA DUNHAM: (runs into Peter as he prepares to leave the subway platform with the container) I guess you've got other plans for tonight.

PETER: Yeah. Do you mind? (apologetic)

BOLIVIA DUNHAM: (earnest) Of course not.

 

[Cue immense relief that she will not need to sleep with a virtual stranger...yet. I may not like it, but I can at least see the humour in it?]

 

Links

Transcript

Pop Culture Nexus Photo recap (my god, these are great).

Polite Dissent

IGN

 

Fanfiction:

There must be one. There must. I, however, do not remember it. This part of the season is kind of a black hole in my head?

 

Comments

[wendelah1]

This is interesting. I had a different reaction; in fact I was quite disappointed. Compared to the brilliance of "Olivia," it's pretty poor stuff. Rather than continuing the momentum from the season opener, "The Box" felt like a step backwards. I will grant that they integrated the case of week into the plot arc but the writing is clunky. The Peter in jeopardy part seemed really forced. Why couldn't he just take the gun with him into the tunnel if they were worried about his hearing coming back? And what exactly was the rush to disarm the box about? And what was the guy with the box doing in the tunnel in the first place? And if the box was a weapon meant to be deployed with the rest of The Machine, why was Newton carting it into the subway station? So he explodes a few hundred Blueverse brains? How does that advance the Redverse's long term goals? There were too many questions and not enough answers.

I see Alt!Livia differently, too. I don't think she's "swallowed the Kool-aid" and I don't think she's selfish. Quite the contrary. She's come of age in a world that has lost so much: forests, grasslands, entire ecosystems in both hemispheres, and countless human lives to catastrophic environmental degradation. The fabric of reality is literally unraveling in her world. There are 10,000 people encased in Amber in Madison Square Garden alone. The idea that her life has been more privileged or that she hasn't suffered loss is just wrong.

She is a member of the military, in a society that has become highly regimented by necessity. She doesn't know she's been lied to. She has no reason at this point to distrust Secretary Bishop. She's been told that her world is at war with ours, that our universe is directly responsible for the destruction of hers. She's not there to destroy our universe, she's there to save hers. She's been entrusted to carry out a top secret, covert mission with almost no preparation whatsoever. Her only ally on our side is a machine.

The more time she spends on our side, the clearer it becomes that what Walternate has told her is not the truth. Our world is not trying to destroy hers.

She's very unhappy about killing Joe. But Newton made it clear that if she didn't do it, he would. He's just following his orders, his programming. The writing is clumsy here too. It was just such a dumb plot device to have her pull the trigger on Joe in the apartment. How did the writers plan for her to dispose of the body? They didn't. It's not on camera so they don't care. Next scene!

Bad Robot needed an excuse for her to make a move on Peter. Plus they don't want the audience to feel very kindly toward her, not yet anyway. This is how you create conflict, give your protagonist a situation with no good options.

I see no sign that she needs Newton's approval at all. She's chewing him out, and letting him know who's in charge. You would not question a man in the same position giving that speech to Newton or call him needy because he carried out his orders. Actually, a man wouldn't need to assert his authority, would he?

Like Walter, Alt!liv does not initially understand the ramifications of her decisions, the consequences of her actions.

I don't think the analogy holds. Walter is the man who choose to put the lives of billions of people in two universes in jeopardy to save the life of one boy. He's a brilliant scientist who did know what the possible consequences of his actions were and he made the wrong choice for purely selfish reasons.

That is not the same thing as what Alt!Livia is doing. She's a soldier. She's a spy working undercover who is making tough decisions for the sake of her mission. She doesn't have all of the pieces of the puzzle yet. Once she does, she makes a very different kind of choice, an act of self-sacrifice. In the eyes of her government, she'd surely be tried and convicted of treason for what she tries to do, if her universe had survived in that timeline.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves here.

[wikiaddicted723]

if the box was a weapon meant to be deployed with the rest of The Machine, why was Newton carting it into the subway station?

I don't think this is a part of the machine the other universe needs. It's just meant to make the Fringe team run in circles for a bit, to clue them into the fact that the machine exists on this side so that they eventually dig it up and find the piece Alt!Liv needs to get to the other side (shown in Entrada, I believe). That's the mission.

The idea that her life has been more privileged or that she hasn't suffered loss is just wrong.

I don't think so. I think she definitely feels deeply for her people, and for the things that have happened to her own world. And I'm not saying she's a bad person, I'm saying that at this point in time, she lacks perspective. All of this things have happened to her world, yes, but not to *her*. Regardless of how altruistic your intentions or life are, things hit home a lot harder when you know what it is like to suffer something personally. Altliv has definitely seen a lot of terrible things, but she still has a fully functioning life, a lot of friends. It's easy for her to connect.

Once she gains that perspective, she becomes someone else. Someone who understands the damage she's done. I highly doubt that if she'd known her actions would start to destroy our universe in the same way as hers has been damaged, she would have done any of the things she did.

She is a member of the military, in a society that has become highly regimented by necessity. She doesn't know she's been lied to. She has no reason at this point to distrust Secretary Bishop.

But she does. The first thing Secretary Bishop tells them is that everything they though they were fighting were not natural events. That they were caused by other people. By another universe. And he told them that he had gotten to the position he is in by selling the public lies in the form of his ZFT book. When you have a problem of that size, having the people helping solve the problem know EVERYTHING they're dealing with should be top priority.

I understand that she is military, and that she is used to following the chain of command, but then again so is Olivia. Olivia was a marine. She has been FBI for a while. Both of those also rely heavily on a chain of command. And yet Olivia continuously find it in herself to question authority, and to go against it when she feels her orders are not right. Because she has the perspective Altliv lacks. Because she has been exposed to her superiors withholding information to cover other people's backs.

She's not there to destroy our universe, she's there to save hers.

Yes, she is, but at what cost? Once the machine is dug up and the drawings uncovered, do you think she was dumb enough to not know it would cost a lot of people their lives? Coincidentally, that's the same episode where Altliv starts doubting her mission. She indirectly asks Peter if he thinks what she is doing is the right thing, and his answer is that he feels it's right to find a way to save BOTH universes.

Olivia, after being abused by the other universe, after having had her life stollen by them, still has it in her to save a child of theirs, to try to minimize the damage as she escapes. That is ultimate selflessness. It is something Altliv learns and develops, once she witnesses the damage she's caused, but she doesn't have it yet, because she's in the dark. She lacks a lot of information.


She's very unhappy about killing Joe. But Newton made it clear that if she didn't do it, he would. He's just following his orders, his programming.

She is unhappy, but she does it anyway. She doesn't even try to find another way. I understand that she's in a very tough situation, but it also plays out as her asserting her authority over Newton. Killing the guy is a way for her to show Newton that she's capable, that she's not the weakling he seems to think she is. Doesn't that bring her down to the same level as the machine? Again, lack of perspective. The thing about Newton and Altliv is that Newton knows Altliv wants to prove herself. She's been given this huuuuge mission, that she thinks will potentially be instrumental in saving her people and her universe, so she is eager to fulfill it. Newton is using that to manipulate her into ignoring her own sense of morality.

Before she agrees to kill the deaf guy, he taunts her. He makes her verbally commit to doing it, knowing that she can't backtrack after that commitment, because Newton also has a direct line to her superiors.

The same verbal sparring, the whole "do you really have what it takes?" also happens in 3x04, right before she sleeps with Peter. Altliv is so determined to be right and to be the best that she unwittingly plays right into Newton's hands.


Bad Robot needed an excuse for her to make a move on Peter. Plus they don't want the audience to feel very kindly toward her, not yet anyway.

I fully agree with this. It's lazy and I still dislike it immensely. They could have avoided this in a lot of very interesting ways, but alas, it was not to be. This is why we have fic.


I see no sign that she needs Newton's approval at all. She's chewing him out, and letting him know who's in charge.

See above. She falls right into his plans. I agree that a man may try to assert authority in the same way, but I would still think he's being an idiot. Newton may be a machine, but he has a lot of experience and information. He has the same goals as her. He's been carrying out a life-long mission quite successfully. A wiser person would have kept such an asset on their side, instead of alienating him by way of mockery, the way Altliv continually does. We now that shapeshifters can form attachments, and that they have feelings, but I don't think Altliv consciously recognizes this, because all she can think of them is "machine = mean to serve me." Because Altliv is cocky, and because she wants to be in charge.

I do want to make it clear, in case it isn't, that I don't think any of this is wrong in a character, or in a person. In fact, all of these dilemmas and these differences in personality are what breathes life to altLiv. It's just not an example of good decision making, in my opinion. And it showcases a lot of the failings Altliv has because of lack of insight and information about our side, beyond factoids.

Actually, a man wouldn't need to assert his authority, would he?

Probably not. Newton would probably be written to bow down and lick the floor the dude has stepped on. But that's bad writing for you. I disagree with a lot of this arc precisely because it always felt like it was done for drama, instead of good entertainment or character development.

It would have been a very neat twist, if, a month in, Altliv had revealed that she was not their Olivia, and that she no longer felt her mission was right. It would have been neat if she had asked our fringe team for help in saving both sides. THAT would have been a HUGE twist. (Who couldn't see Altliv sleeping with Peter to keep her cover intact after the last few minutes of 3x01? Denial is one thing, but...)



And your last paragraph is basically what I just tried to say. TL;DR: I still think Altliv is all of those things I mentioned, for reasons explained in detail above, but I think it comes down to lack of perspective and information on her part. And my comments were never intended to say that I think Altliv sucks as a person, just that she makes a bunch of decisions that I don't agree with. To me, her biggest failing is her willingness to follow orders blindly, but then again, you're right. It may fall down to a question of nurture. It is how she was raised to be.

[sprocket]

I will grant that they integrated the case of week into the plot arc but the writing is clunky . . . How does that advance the Redverse's long term goals? There were too many questions and not enough answers.

These are good questions, which call back to Fringe's weakness at plotting at the episode level. In this case, it feels like the MotW element was shortchanged in favor of the bigger season arc.

This is how you create conflict, give your protagonist a situation with no good options.

I like how you put that! Red!Liv starts out in a tough spot, which doesn't get any easier - perhaps differently hard? - the longer she stays on the other side.

[opusculasedfera]

My impression was that the whole mission was an attempt to get the box into Fringe Division's hands. They thought the burglars would die, leaving the box in situ to be found by Fringe div, then they try leaving it in the subway because that also creates a weird Fringe case that can't be tracked back to them, and the guy carrying it off into the tunnels was an unforeseen problem, they'd have been happy if it had been left on the bench. I agree that it's lazy writing though, they were definitely focusing on the dramatic possibilities of the situation than making the plan important (and I also would like very much to know how Olivia was supposed to dispose of a large body in her tiny apartment. Surely even redverse Fringe agents wouldn't be able to get away with that without scrutiny?)

[wendelah1]

My impression was that the whole mission was an attempt to get the box into Fringe Division's hands.

But Fringe already knows about the people who died and that there's a device that caused it. If that's all they wanted to do, as soon as Joe hands the box over to Alt!livia, mission accomplished. He saw her badge. He knows she's Fringe Division. So what? He doesn't know anything else about the plot, I'd warrant, and what he does know is easily obtained through questioning since he thinks she's legit. Unless I'm forgetting something, he's never seen Newton. Besides that Fringe knows all about Newton!

This plot just looks stupider and stupider to me. All the writers wanted to do was contrive a reason for Alt!Lvia to have to make out with Peter and apparently this is the best they could come up with.

[opusculasedfera]

I assumed they were trying to make sure that he never got around to saying anything about Newton at all, as presumably Alt!livia would have had to produce Joe for the FBI and they don't know what Joe's partners said about Newton. This way the mystery is the device and Peter might work on it without being distracted by chasing around town looking for the other people that are looking for it.

...or at least that's how I explain it in universe, because I do agree that this episode was not the best planned out. Certainly, given that Alt!Livia is clearly not totally comfortable making out with Peter, it would have made a lot more sense to get the two of them out of the house, particularly because unless she was completely certain they were going to get called away, the more likely he is to need to use the washroom full of dead guy. I know that never happens on tv, but I want my tv characters to act like other people might have bladders or dirty hands or normal people functions, occasionally! It's definitely the usual thing where writers trying to shove events in particular directions end up making characters look dumber than they intend.

[sprocket]

Setup episode! "Olivia" wrapped up lingering cliffhangers from "Over There", opening up space for new plotlines; "The Box" starts setting up the board for S3.

Continuing the reflection motif from 3x01: red!Olivia in the mirror with Edison, and again with the typewriter. Peter and red!Olivia's conversation in the bar: It was like looking into one of those carnival mirrors. The shot of the Deaf thief's body in the bathroom mirror.

"A very powerful piece of ancient tech" takes on a whole 'nother meaning if you've spent time in Stargate fandom.

"Reminds me of Monet's lilies."

"The painting?"

"It's a pastel."

...so many little differences!

The Peter/red!Liv relationship burns, but it burns at both ends. (It will not last the night; But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends— It gives a lovely light!) On the one hand I hate the concept and what it could be interpreted to say about both characters. I hate to think Peter, who's supposed to be pretty smart, didn't twig to the switch sooner, especially because "our" Olivia pulled a similar stunt in "Over There". And I have very mixed feelings on red!Liv actively pursuing that relationship. On the other hand, the season takes the relationship to one logical end of a romance founded on a lie, with backblow scattered across two universes.

This episode also sees the first introduction of one of the season's themes: can Walter let go of Peter. Letting kids grow up, taking responsibility for their lives and choices, and negotiating an adult relationship with their grown-up children are challenges parents face, but Fringe dials it up to 11 (your son or the world - no, the universe!). In some ways I like it. In others, I'm less thrilled. Fringe sucked me in by way of Olivia, and the focus shifts here. Case in point, it feels like there's a lot more Peter-Broyles interaction in this episode, especially in the subway scene, where Olivia would normally be front and center.

The episode also introduces the first ambiguity in red!Liv's relationship to the blueverse. Their side may be alluring, but don't be taken in by it. They started the war. Remember? She came over on a mission, a soldier's job, but as the season unfolds she slowly finds holes in her side's justifications and confrontational approach. No, you can just do your job... I'm sorry.

Interesting that the first person Walter seeks out after he discovers the Massive Dynamic shares is Astrid. I'll have more to say about Walter and Massive Dynamic later this season, when we hit the Bellivia arc and I whine mightily about the show trying to pack too much into one season.

[wikiaddicted723]

hate to think Peter, who's supposed to be pretty smart, didn't twig to the switch sooner, especially because "our" Olivia pulled a similar stunt in "Over There".

But the thing is, he DID notice! he says, multiple times, that he noticed the differences! And I do think he's a total tool for not following his gut, and thinking with his dick, but this is why Subject 13 later on is one of my favourite episodes. Peter HAS BEEN TRAINED FROM CHILDHOOD TO IGNORE HIS GUT FEELINGS. He was convinced in very early childhood that the things he believed to be true were wrong, that he was delusional, and it marked him. He is this super distrustful person, but once you're in Peter Bishop's inner circle, he'll let anything slide, because he'll overanalyze and assign logical reasons to every behaviour.

In Peter's mind, he was the reason for the differences, because he himself was different around Olivia. He let the walls around him fall and he expected her to be the same way, to act the same way. To him, Olivia being freer with him, happier, was just a natural step in their relationship. It brings a lot of light to the fact that they shared a lot of monumentally important things, but that there are still some glaring holes in Peter's knowledge of Olivia's experiences, and the ways she is in a relationship.

She came over on a mission, a soldier's job, but as the season unfolds she slowly finds holes in her side's justifications and confrontational approach.

YES!!! Once she starts thinking for herself, as an investigator interpreting the clues on hand, instead of blindly following orders.

[sprocket]

He was convinced in very early childhood that the things he believed to be true were wrong, that he was delusional, and it marked him.

Augh, and I brought that up in the Northwest Passage discussion! Should've remembered that. It's true Peter's relationship with what is real or true might be kind of broken. His early points of reference, the inner circle of Walter and Elizabeth (and Nina and Belly?) were not exactly honest with him.

Once she starts thinking for herself, as an investigator interpreting the clues on hand, instead of blindly following orders.

Maybe that's a difference between the two Olivias. One excels in a high stress civilian investigative job, the other in something akin to a militarized disaster response unit. And when forced into similar situations... the tension between the two Olivia's mix of similarities and divergences is absolutely fascinating for me.

[casually_cruel]

I'll comment more on this episode and on the topics being discussed here later, after I've puzzled out my own thoughts, but I want to recommend a fic before I forget.

The Shape of a Sooner State by CherryIce

It's set later in the season but I think it's appropriate in light of all the alt!Liv discussion.

[wikiaddicted723]

This is fantastic, and I had never read it. Thank you!

[wendelah1]

It's a great fic, one of the first I read in the fandom.

[opusculasedfera]

For me, the key thing about red!Olivia's actions is that she doesn't quite see blue!verse as real yet. We keep getting this highlighted: Peter says something similar about red!verse, she finds blue!verse pop culture laughable and implausible, and if you want to read it like this, certainly the farce of her murder of Joe and Peter's sudden arrival also reads like she's forgotten this is a real place with real consequences.

Obviously, she learns differently over time and the whole theme of the show is that ignorance is no excuse when you do something terrible, but it makes sense to me that she would feel like that when she only learned of alternate universes a couple of days ago, even when she's there. She does believe Walternate, but I think it's made easier because the situation is so bizarre for her in a way that blue!Olivia is already accustomed to.

[wendelah1]

Obviously, she learns differently over time and the whole theme of the show is that ignorance is no excuse when you do something terrible, but it makes sense to me that she would feel like that when she only learned of alternate universes a couple of days ago, even when she's there. She does believe Walternate, but I think it's made easier because the situation is so bizarre for her in a way that blue!Olivia is already accustomed to.

It makes sense to me, too. That's a good observation, that there is a parallel being drawn here between Peter's reactions to the Redverse and hers to the Blueverse.

But more than that, I think it would take a lot of time and conscious thought for a career soldier to go against orders and take a risk that would undermine their primary mission. To her, Joe is a casualty of war, and maybe his death appears unnecessary from our perspective. But I don't see how she would make any other choice given what she knows at this point, what she believes, and what she's been tasked to accomplish. The irony to me is how little training she's been given. She's just been shoehorned into this role by necessity. I watch another show that's about undercover spies, The Americans. They got years of intensive instruction before they're asked to perform the kind of operation she's being expected to carry out with a cursory briefing and a manual for self-study! It's a ridiculous set-up.

[kerithwyn]

True confession: During the first run watched, when I realized they were going to have more episodes in the altverse, I was SO EXCITED. ...and then, honestly disappointed every other week with episodes in the Blue'verse. So while I've seen these eps a few times, they're never my favorite. Entirely apart from the Liv and Peter issue, which I'm sure I will rant about in a future entry. :p

Yeah, as all above note, the plot really doesn't hang together. The dead guy in the bathroom will never not irritate me.

I'm more interested in watching Liv adapt to this world on the fly--and the ways she isn't and is like Olivia. Some of her investigatory questions are just like Olivia's, and her quickness in covering when she hasn't quite nailed her impersonation:

PETER: I just... as long as I've known you, I've never heard you express an interest in music.
BOLIVIA DUNHAM: Oh. I've been noticing a lot of things since we've been back. I guess being over there and meeting another Olivia Dunham has made me think about the way I look at the world, the choices I've made.

Just as smart, just as reckless. Going into the tunnel after Peter--in terms of her mission, that was a ridiculous thing to do. She had no reason to think her brains wouldn't be boiled too! But it was a completely Olivia Dunham thing to do regardless.

I've said multiple times that I really, really love s4 if for no other reason than providing a Liv I could justifiably like again. But I can admire her soldier's dedication, if nothing else.

Also, we learn that Astrid does indeed have a home, and that her apartment number is 204. So that's useful!

[wikiaddicted723]

and then, honestly disappointed every other week with episodes in the Blue'verse.

They do drag compared to the Altverse, don't they? I think that's just sad. Like, they focused so much on making the other universe fantastic that they forgot they should keep ours compelling as well.

Yeah, as all above note, the plot really doesn't hang together. The dead guy in the bathroom will never not irritate me.

Yeah, see, I have a giant problem when talking about fringe plots, and its that I can only qualify episodes of it in two ways: great, and perfect. Except for 3x04 and 4x17. Which we don't talk about. Ever. (Except when we do, and it hurts).

Which is to say that rationally, logically, I do recognize that it's lazy writing (see comment above), but I hold Fringe to a standard of its own. I should maybe amend that kind of thinking.

But I can admire her soldier's dedication, if nothing else.

Oh, yeah. I just....critical thinking, woman!